TRUCKASAURUS Appreciation Thread!

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TRUCKASAURUS Appreciation Thread!

Post by Excalibur » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm

Well, at my youth group we're learning about questions do ask those who believe anything, so I wanted to test them on you guys, specifically you, Caff, who is the most pro-evolution person I know of on the forum of the top of my head.

So, now for number one. This is at the point of how we evolved from monkeys: How do you know what you're saying is true? How do you know we evolved from monkeys? And please don't go on and on, I want only one or two paragraphs from at most five people to make it easier to direct the rest at you.

And, no one go off and tell me this was stupid to post, stay on topic and don't go off at me about only at most five people, it's only a test for no real purpose. If you end up being converted to Christianity, that's your decission, at this point I know most of you are just gonna go "No" at me no matter what at this point. So, Aether, unless you're going to answer the questions, don't post. The same goes for anyone else.
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Post by gatrosk » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:42 pm

They don't, it's all conjecture.
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Post by R0B3R7 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:19 am

umm, greg...
this will become a debate, most likely heated and it won't be covered by either side with one or two paragraphs in my opinion.
chances are your reply will be just as lengthy also
dA
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Re: Some Evolutionists Wanted to Test This (Specifically Caf

Post by Caffeine » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:22 am

Excalibur wrote: So, now for number one. This is at the point of how we evolved from monkeys: How do you know what you're saying is true? How do you know we evolved from monkeys?
First of all, we didn't evolve from monkeys, we evolved from an apelike creature that chimps and other apes also descended from. Also, "know it's true" is a bad way to put it. I think it is true. I think it is true because the theory of evolution explains what I've seen in people and animals in a way that makes sense to me. Aside from the scientific evidence that backs it up (We've been over it, and it has made no impact on you..), the alternative of creationism seems so small and silly. I don't like speaking in absolutes, but taking the things you seem to me to believe religion seems like a desperate and childish attempt at providing significance and an afterlife to yourself. But my friend, space is so big and so cold and so complicated!

It might seem like a depressing way to live, but it's not. Even though my principles and emotions are arbitrary and don't really mean anything to anyone or anything else, I can't and won't deny their significance to me. So I'm free to follow them.
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Post by Excalibur » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:41 am

How does it prove what you've seen in people and animals? What have you seen? And the actual question: What if you're wrong and you die?
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Post by Caffeine » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:39 am

What if I'm wrong and I die? What is you're wrong and you die? You drew living things, and Allah is mad at you!:wink:
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Post by Dustin C. » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:07 am

Ahem...

I am pro-evolution, and I base my beliefs on scientific findings.
For the most part, as caff said, we did not evolve from monkeys, but apes and/or apelike creatures, which is very plausible. if you study anatomy, human and animal, you can see that both have extremely similar skeletal and muscular systems, but still have uniquely specific traits.
Before proceeding I feel I must at least explain what the basis of "evolution" is. Evolution is basically when a species adapts to its environment, the process take time and happens through breeding.

A hypothetical example: there is a floating, moving, island of penguins.
there are 90 of them in total, 30 with downy feathers for cold, 30 who can take heat, and 30 who are inbetween.
if the island were to float towards a colder area, the penguins with the downy-feathers would be more likely to survive the cold, and thus more desirable mates. the downy population would grow while the heat-tolerant penguins would decline.

doesnt a child have the traits of their parents? mom had blue eyes, kid had blue eyes. dad had brown hair, kid has brown hair.
humans closer to the equater or in hot places usually have darker skin pigmentation, while those from cooler climates tend to have lighter pigmentation.

now I cant obviously explain how apes decided to evolve, thats for a more educated person to do. i can assume that apes who used simple tools became more abundant. i can however say there is proof of this concept.
fossilized remains of creatures resembling the stages of the evolution of early man. Cromagnun "caveman" being the most popular and another type of human that was more taller, thinner and intelligent. We modern humans are believed to be the result of their breeding.
another proof of evolution and life coming from the smallest life forms.

cellular mytosis. cells splitting, one making two. in other words...

how a human baby is born.

Now just because i am pro-evolution, does not mean i am anti-religion.
i believe there is an all-kowing being of some sort, but i'm not foolish enough to think that any single religion is more right than another. thats mans' fault. Jesus, of course he existed, so did adam and eve.
i just believe that those who ran the church back in the old days did what they could to control the people, they were the governments back then afterall.

also, neither side of this battle should denounce the other without at least taking a look at the other side's argument. thats just ignorant no matter who you are.

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Post by major banana » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:13 am

I don't know it's true. But i know we evolved from something since there is proof of that like dustin said, thats enough for now to convince me that this is what happened.

Why i don't believe that 'god' made women from ribs or that we're created by protoculture is because there's no proof besides a book and an anime saga. But that's not the question right.

oh and ibtl

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Post by gatrosk » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:42 pm

Hey Dustin, or whoever else wants to answer...
Just curious about a couple things with evolution per-say.
You said before that you believe we evolved from cromagnun man (forgive the spelling).
I was wondering what you attribute to massive increase in intelligence in our species if we did indeed evolve from these primal humans.
The reason I ask is if the traits that survived were ones that aided survival (survival of the fittest right?) why did the human race and the monkeys' survive?
Just looking at the traits that most humans have, we're pretty poorly equipped to survive in the wilderness, leaving technology out of the picture of course...
Then take a look at all the species of apes, primates, monkeys, etc. who are perfectly equipped for their surroundings..
Just curious what you attribute to that happening..
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Post by Excalibur » Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:59 pm

Caffeine wrote:What if I'm wrong and I die? What is you're wrong and you die? You drew living things, and Allah is mad at you!:wink:
Oooh, that happened to the guy from AIG(Answerws in Genesis, the company that made the thing.) too. I'll just give you his answer: I asked you first. So, really, what if you're wrong and you die?

By the way, you drew living things, too. So he'd be mad at you[if he existed], too.
I am pro-evolution, and I base my beliefs on scientific findings.
For the most part, as caff said, we did not evolve from monkeys, but apes and/or apelike creatures, which is very plausible. if you study anatomy, human and animal, you can see that both have extremely similar skeletal and muscular systems, but still have uniquely specific traits.
Well, guys, I'm just gonna say monkeys, since if its ape-like it's basically a monkey. So, stop correcting that, I don't care if it was squirrel-like or ape-like, or hippo-like, just answer the questions. Ok, I figure this one works for your reply: What do you mean by "scientific findings"?
I don't know it's true. But i know we evolved from something since there is proof of that like dustin said, thats enough for now to convince me that this is what happened.
Ok, I'm gonna use something from a different one that's not actually a set of these questions, but, it'll still work for ya'. Where's the proof? What is it?
now I cant obviously explain how apes decided to evolve, thats for a more educated person to do. i can assume that apes who used simple tools became more abundant. i can however say there is proof of this concept.
fossilized remains of creatures resembling the stages of the evolution of early man. Cromagnun "caveman" being the most popular and another type of human that was more taller, thinner and intelligent. We modern humans are believed to be the result of their breeding.
So if you can't explain it, how do you know it's true?
Jesus, of course he existed, so did adam and eve.
What a minute, but if Jesus and Adam and Eve existed then how come the Bible's not true? It's impossible. If the bible's not true then everything in it isn't. Sorry for straying from the questions, but it's the truth. Why do you believe Jesus, Adam, and Eve all existed if you don't believe the Bible?
also, neither side of this battle should denounce the other without at least taking a look at the other side's argument. thats just ignorant no matter who you are.
I'm not trying to make it an argument like happened in... I forget, was it the Death thread or the BS thread? Still, it's only meant to see what you guys say. I'm surprised Caff has stuck to answering questions only.
Hey Dustin, or whoever else wants to answer...
Just curious about a couple things with evolution per-say.
You said before that you believe we evolved from cromagnun man (forgive the spelling).
I was wondering what you attribute to massive increase in intelligence in our species if we did indeed evolve from these primal humans.
The reason I ask is if the traits that survived were ones that aided survival (survival of the fittest right?) why did the human race and the monkeys' survive?
Just looking at the traits that most humans have, we're pretty poorly equipped to survive in the wilderness, leaving technology out of the picture of course...
Then take a look at all the species of apes, primates, monkeys, etc. who are perfectly equipped for their surroundings..
Just curious what you attribute to that happening..
Good question. I never though of asking that ever. And if it were indeed survival of the fittest than we wouldn't be alive because dragons, un-domesticated wolves, and large cats would have killed us off without some good weapons. Swords wouldn't get by dragons easily, nor a pack of untamed wolves! And without domesticated wolves we wouldn't have dogs to aid us. Just though like adding that.
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Post by konflikti » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:04 pm

Excalibur wrote:Good question. I never though of asking that ever. And if it were indeed survival of the fittest than we wouldn't be alive because dragons, un-domesticated wolves, and large cats would have killed us off without some good weapons. Swords wouldn't get by dragons easily, nor a pack of untamed wolves! And without domesticated wolves we wouldn't have dogs to aid us. Just though like adding that.
Dragons. Dragons... I mean, what the fuck is the point of trying to convince you about anything. You actually brought dragons into conversation about evolution and creationism. That's like... I don't even know. Damn.
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Post by Dustin C. » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:36 pm

Excalibur wrote: Well, guys, I'm just gonna say monkeys, since if its ape-like it's basically a monkey. So, stop correcting that. What do you mean by "scientific findings"?
Monkey has a tail. Ape does not have tail. Its as simple as that.
Scientific findings.....pretty self explanitory if you ask me.
The results of long-term reseach and exploration into a particular subject.
make sense?
here is a picture of gorilla and human skeleton
http://pro.corbis.com/images/SF39479.jp ... 5CAF0FB%7D
now tell me you dont see similarities.

Ok, I'm gonna use something from a different one that's not actually a set of these questions, but, it'll still work for ya'. Where's the proof? What is it?
Where is the proof? In books, muesems, laboratories, in the very ground itself buried waiting to be unearthed after millions of years.
What is it? Fossils, skeletal remains, and other things.

all you would have to do to see that these things exist is actually go out of your way to look for them and listen.
this stuff is on tv all the time, why not just have a look instead of ignoring it.
So if you can't explain it, how do you know it's true?
I cant explain it because i'm personally not good at explaining it. thats why i said a more educated person can.

What a minute, but if Jesus and Adam and Eve existed then how come the Bible's not true? It's impossible. If the bible's not true then everything in it isn't. Sorry for straying from the questions, but it's the truth. Why do you believe Jesus, Adam, and Eve all existed if you don't believe the Bible?
Every story, no matter if its right or wrong, is based on a small grain of truth. A story that has lasted as long, and has thrived the way it did, must have merit to it.
Now the bible, was in fact, written by men. Men lie, and are fallable, so the bible MAY be fallable as well.
(noticed how i said "may" as to not denounce anything.)

Now, why do i believe Jesus and Adam/Eve lived?
Scientific findings.
I've watched documentaries, read books and listened to people.

why did the human race survive?
Just curious what you attribute to that happening..

Sheer Numbers and adaptability. To hunt, we hunted in groups.
A group of hunting men could take down a single wooly mammoth.

We made hunting tools, like sharpened sticks and arrow heads made from flint. We adapted to our environement, we made animal pelts into coats and such. Fire of course helped a lot. We are the only creature in the world that can manufacture fire. Fire keeps us warm at night and wards of predetors.
Why are we at the top of the food chain? cause there are 600 billion of us.
and we learn, and adapt.
we wouldn't be alive because dragons, un-domesticated wolves, and large cats would have killed us off without some good weapons. Swords wouldn't get by dragons easily, nor a pack of untamed wolves! And without domesticated wolves we wouldn't have dogs to aid us. Just though like adding that.
wait....WHAT!!?!
konflikti wrote:Dragons. Dragons... I mean, what the fuck is the point of trying to convince you about anything. You actually brought dragons into conversation about evolution and creationism. That's like... I don't even know. Damn.
maybe he means komodo dragons.....

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Post by major banana » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:43 pm

Proof FOR ME is in the backroom of the museums. A bunch of skeletons, bones, tools,... The past of humanity. Research that costs an arm and a leg and takes ages.

If someday someone diggs up the black monolith on the moon, i'll believe that.
If someone finds a protoculture ship, i'll believe that.
If someone finds god hiding behind orions belt, i'll believe that.
If someone finds yggdrassil in the skies, i'll believe that.

For now the only explanation with visible and touchable evidence is evolution from some apehuman to the ancestor of human, so i believe that. I hope that answers your question.

edit, dustin beat me to it haha.

And i think excalibur is VERY openminded in a way (can't believe i'm saying that about this guy). I mean if you believe stuff like the great flood and god 'creating' everything and paradise and hell, a dragon isn't that unthinkable, amirite..?

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Post by Excalibur » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:54 pm

And i think excalibur is VERY openminded in a way (can't believe i'm saying that about this guy). I mean if you believe stuff like the great flood and god 'creating' everything and paradise and hell, a dragon isn't that unthinkable, amirite..?
Are you kidding me? You've got to be kidding...
Dragons. Dragons... I mean, what the [SMEG] is the point of trying to convince you about anything.
Leviathan=Dragons. You can't convince me evolution's true, so there is no point. I'd rather die then believe it because if it was true there'd be no point in life so I'd jump off a cliff.
Monkey has a tail. Ape does not have tail. Its as simple as that.
Scientific findings.....pretty self explanitory if you ask me.
The results of long-term reseach and exploration into a particular subject.
make sense?
here is a picture of gorilla and human skeleton
http://pro.corbis.com/images/SF39479.jp ... 5CAF0FB%7D
now tell me you dont see similarities.
Yes, yes, I know one has a tail and one doesn't. And yes, I see the similarities, but similarities are similarities. A chihuahua and cat have similarities, ones longer but they're both small, have tails, four legs, a head, a snout, two ears, claws, paws, and pads, but to my knowledge evolutionists don't believe they evolved from the same thing, do they?


Where is the proof? In books, muesems, laboratories, in the very ground itself buried waiting to be unearthed after millions of years.
What is it? Fossils, skeletal remains, and other things.
How do you know what they're saying is true? They could lie. You don't believe the Bible's true yet it's a book, you wouldn't believe anything in the Creation Museum, it's a museum, there's laboratories with Christian scientists, you wouldn't believe them, so why believe the others?
all you would have to do to see that these things exist is actually go out of your way to look for them and listen.
this stuff is on tv all the time, why not just have a look instead of ignoring it.
What basis are you using to say I ignore it? I don't, I'm actually quite interested in the subject of Creation vs. Evolution.
Every story, no matter if its right or wrong, is based on a small grain of truth. A story that has lasted as long, and has thrived the way it did, must have merit to it.
Now the bible, was in fact, written by men. Men lie, and are fallable, so the bible MAY be fallable as well.
But then that would mean Darwin could've lied, too, so how do you know he was telling the truth? If the Bible has lasted much longer than evolution, doesn't it have more truth than evolution, which has only been around since the 1800s, not the beginning of time?(Or 6-7,000 BC if you don't believe the Earth is young.) If it's only a small grain, how do you know evolution is fact? If we can't observe it today happening how do you know it's true?
Scientific findings.
I've watched documentaries, read books and listened to people.
Yes, but historians from the time of Jesus also have confirmed his death and resurrection.
Sheer Numbers and adaptability. To hunt, we hunted in groups.
A group of hunting men could take down a single wooly mammoth.
A pack of wolves also hunts in groups, and could do the same.
We made hunting tools, like sharpened sticks and arrow heads made from flint. We adapted to our environement, we made animal pelts into coats and such. Fire of course helped a lot. We are the only creature in the world that can manufacture fire. Fire keeps us warm at night and wards of predetors.
Why are we at the top of the food chain? cause there are 600 billion of us.
and we learn, and adapt.
Actually, we aren't the only ones that can make fire. A bug can, and dragons could.(At least leviathan if you don't want me saying dragons.) Yes, but if we evolved than there wouldn't have been 600 billion of us, there'd be only one in the beginning, and how did it produce more? The reptiles(Dinos, crocs, dragons.) and sharks would've killed us off before we got to 100.
wait....WHAT!!?!
The Bible confirms dragons. Leviathan to me has "dragon" written all over it. It's also in cultures around the world, like the Flood.

So, now to you, Dustin, what if you're wrong and die?
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Post by Dustin C. » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:16 pm

I stand by my statements.
Yes wolves hunt in packs, hence they are still around too. Why are we still around was the question, and it was the very same answer to why wolves are still around.

All mammals evolved from earlier mammals, that is why we all have similarites. cats, dogs, humans, "monkies" whales. we are all similar and have unique speecific differences.

and here is my rebutal to all other questions:

You ask us for proof, it is there.
My question is this, ASIDE from the bible, what proof do you have other than faith and belief?

(in other words easier to understand, without using the bible as the answer, tell us your proof.)

and lastly, i think the religous communities view science in the wrong light. science does not exist to just prove the bible wrong, ok.
science is human endevour in understanding the unkown.
science only seeks to find answers based on fact and theory.

please, try to understand, i am sharing what i've learned in a very broad example. You cannot honestly expect a single average person on the internet to answer every nit-picking-detail question on a forum, can you?

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